Episode 128 - Hellfire and Brimstone

L: Peter Wyngarde as Jason King. C: Jason Wyngarde and Jean Grey in Uncanny X-Men 132. R: Jason Wyngarde and Diana Rigg in The Avengers. Imitation and flattery, et cetera.

It’s been a while, but we are happy as heck to welcome back writer, journalist and From the Sublime editor Iain Hepburn back to the show for a long chat about some classic British popular culture (and other stuff).

We start with the recent passing of film and tv music composer Laurie Johnson at age 96. Although probably best known for The Avengers (and New Avengers) themes, he had a long career that includes Jason King and The Professionals on TV and films including Dr. Strangelove. We talk about his career and other British TV composers like Ron Grainer (The Prisoner and Doctor Who) and Edwin Astley (Randall and Hopkirk Decased, Danger Man). This leads into a chat about 1960 British shows, the ones that made it to the US and the ones that didn’t and the fun of spotting actors on those before before they were famous.

Then, there’s plenty of chat about Doctor Who and the return of Russell T. Davies to run the show. We talk about how the vast Doctor Who library is now on BBC iplayer, the Tales of the Tardis special featuring classic cast members, modernizing old episodes for a contemporary audience and the hunt for missing episodes. This segues into a chat about physical media, streaming services, the phenomenon of Talking Pictures TV in the UK, preservation and restoration of older programs, how that relates to classic wresting TV shows and more.

There’s also chat about Iain’s magazine From the Sublime, who third/fourth issue is currently in production. We talk about the previous issues and some of the topics, including a Buck Rogers-themed restaurant in Glascow in the 1980s and futbol kit culture, including an unexpected discussion of the NASL and MLS. If you want a copy of From the Sublime and you order from their website, enter “WINTERPALACE” for 15% discount.

It’s always great to talk to Iain about stuff, so hopefully it won’t be more than eight years before he is back on the podcast.

Episode 125 - Sweet F.A.

The famous 1974 photo of Exotic Adrian Streeet and his coal mining father.

It’s always great to welcome back birthday twin Kevin Day (@kevinhunterday) to the show. First up, once I learned Kevin had been a fan of World of Sport wrestling growing up, I knew that would be the subject of his next appearance. Since he was casual fan watching, he brings a different perspective to the business than most of our usual guests, who are historians or competitors themselves. We talk about how it evolves over the 20+ years it was on ITV in the UK and chat about most of the well-known names: host Kent Walton, Big Daddy (no HOF talk here), Giant Haystacks, Mick McManus, Kendo Nagasaki (I explain to Kevin about his Japanese namesake in 80s American wrestling), Johnny Saint, Steve/William Regal, Robbie Brookside, Catweazle and others. But we spent a lot of time talking about Adrian Street. (Kevin was originally going to do the pod right after Adrian’s death earlier this year). We talk about his career in the US and the UK, the famous photo (seen above) with his Welsh coal mining father in 1974, his influence on glam rock, how the character was presented at the time and now in present day and, of course, his infamous showdown with a certain disgraced UK TV presenter.

From there, we discuss Kevin’s new book he co-wrote with former guest Kieran Maguire and their Price of Football producer Guy Kitty called “Unfit and Improper Persons.” We discuss how the book came about as a way to discuss the myriad of issues in the world of football finance without it being just a textbook (since Kieran already wrote that book). Here, the three of them start a fictional football team named West Park Rovers and we follow their journey from pub team to Europa League participant. Along the way, they discuss many of the issues plaguing the modern game: financial fair play, sustainability, accessibility, inclusivity and, of course, amortization. There’s also some chat about Lionel Messi in MLS, David Beckham, Pele, The New York Cosmos, Once in a Lifetime, the NASL, the NFL and other American sports.

Wrapping up, we learned on the Price of Football that both Kieran and Kevin were also gamers and both were playing the new Zelda game, “Tears of the Kingdom.” We heard from Kieran a few months ago about his thoughts on the game and now we hear Kevin’s opinions having finished the game and how it compared to its predecesor “Breath of the Wild.”

And, by happenstance, we recorded the show the night before our two teams played in the Premier League, so there’s some brief chat about the fortunes of our two clubs this year.

I love talking to Kevin about old school British popular culture, as he provides an eye witness account on shows and sports I either watched here in the US on PBS with no cultural context (Monty Python, Doctor Who) or only discovered years later (Randall and Hopkirk, Dad’s Army and Department S/Jason King for example).

The Plot Podcast - Episode 18 - Whose Line Is It Anyway?

A murderers’ row of Whose Line panelists: Josie Lawrence, Paul Merton, Tony Slattery, Mike McShane.

First off, get well soon to When It Was Cool head honcho Karl Stern, after his medical incident, as we know say these days.

Onto the show, a love letter to one of my all-time favorite shows, the original, British version of Whose Line Is It Anyway?, which just celebrated its 35th anniversary.

We discuss the history of the show, first on BBC Radio 4 (of course) and then its debut on Channel 4. Who was in the original pilot along with host Clive Anderson and radio holdover John Sessions? Find out. And how did the show evolve over the years: which segments made the grade, which were forgotten and which were likely added to accommodate the influx of North American panelists over the years? Which now famous personalities appeared on the show when they were relatively unknown, at least here in the US, where the show aired on Comedy Central.

Then, some clips featuring some of my favorite panelists: Josie Lawrence, Greg Proops, Paul Merton, Ryan Stiles, Mike McShane and my personal number one, Tony Slattery.

It was wonderful to relive some episodes that I watched so many times that I can remember some of the bits 30 years later. Thanks for the memories, one and all.

Episode 122 - Hotscakes

The Cary Grant of Pigs, Arnold Ziffel. (c) 2023 MGM.

We’re happy to welcome Daniel Budnik (@dannyslacks1) to the podcast to discuss an underrated comic great of the 1960s, Green Acres. Daniel wrote “From Beverly Hills to Hooterville,” an episode guide and analysis of the three shows created by Paul Henning in the 1960s: The Beverly Hillbillies, Petticoat Junction and Green Aces.

We talk about the show’s origin and how Jay Sommers based on the show on “Granby’s Green Acres,” a radio show with a similar premise back in the 1950. There’s a lot of talk on the show about Sommers and writing partner Chevillat, who scripted almost all of the show’s 170 episodes over six seasons.

There’s lots of talk about the cast, headed by Eddie Albert and Eva Gabor and the various folks that inhabit Hooterville, including handyman Ed (Tom Lester) shifty salesman Mr. Haney (Pat Buttram) and of course, the breakout star of the show at the time, Arnold Ziffel (Arnold the Pig).

We discuss the surreal and absurdist comedy found on the show, which probably goes back to the careers of Sommers and Chevillat, who worked with people in vaudeville, film and radio like the Marx Brothers, Burns and Allen and Laurel & Hardy.

There’s lots of talk about our favorite and/or memorable episodes and bits, including Lisa’s cooking, Oliver’s empassioned speeches about farming and all the metatext in the show.

This was a very fun show to record and discuss such a television classic. We hope to have Daniel back on the show to talk about some of his other areas of research he has done in his books and podcasts, including Supertrain and Time Express, that’s the Vincent Price “Fantasy Island on a train” show whose name we couldn’t remember.

Episode 121 - Boys Don't Cry

An ad for the New York Cosmos that ran in DC Comics in 1977.

We are happy to finally have Kieran Maguire (@kieranmaguire) from the Price of Football podcast on the show. Even though he only a few miles up the road in Philadelphia last week, this episode was a Trans-Atlantic recording, done both late night and early morning. While his teaching day job brought him to the States, he managed to get to see his Brighton and Hove Albion squad take on Chelsea in one of this year’s Premier League pre-season matches taking place here. We started off discussing how he found the atmosphere of the match, both on- and off-pitch, desegregated crowds and exorbitant concession prices. That branched out into a general chat about football in England and the growth of MLS, the thorny topic of American ownership of British teams and the old chestnut, promotion and relegation. We also talked about some recent US-related topics that had come up on the Price of Football that related to US sports, like public salaries and agents’ fees.

Believe it or not, I wanted to keep the football chat to a minimum, but it was the first half of the episode. After that, we talked about Kieran’s other great cultural love, music, particularly the 70s and 80s bands in what some call the Second British Invasion. We discuss how the Manchester music scene in the early 80s influenced where he went to university and our mutual love for bands like New Order and Joy Division, OMB, the Smiths and the Cure. Also, some love for the New Music Express, Danny Kelly and Danny Baker, the intimacy of podcasts vs modern radio and more.

We wrap up with some video game chat. Kieran and co-host (and former podcast guest) Kevin Day were both playing the new Zelda game, Tears of the Kingdom. We talked about how he has found the game so far, comparing it to Breath of the Wild, using video games as decompression time and more.

We had hoped to do a separate show with Kevin and pair them together, but scheduling issues kept that from happening. Hopefully, Kevin will be on before or in conjunction with the next Price of Football book, Unfit and Improper Persons, where the guys discuss how to start a local pub team and build it all the way up to Champions League success and what the financial realities are in such an endeavor. And yes, we did talk about how an unlikely Odd Couple of a Crystal Palace supporting comedian and Brighton supporting academic have managed to produce a successful podcast.

The Plot Podcast - Episode 8 - Spooky Seventies Saturday Morning TV

The Original Ghostbusters. No, really. Bob Burns, Larry Storch and Forrest Tucker.

To wrap up Hallowe’en Month at When It Was Cool, let’s look at some spooky 1970s Saturday morning TV shows.

First, the original Ghostbusters from 1975. Spencer (Larry Storch), Tracy the Gorilla (Bob Burns) and Kong (Forrest Tucket) are bumbling detectives fighting vampires, monsters, ghosts and the like. There’s a little bit of Borscht Belt comedy, some vaudeville humor and a lot of silly gags. Some famous character actors show up as bad guys like Ted Knight as a ghost, Bernie Kopell as Dr. Frankenstein and Jim Backus as Eric the Red. If you loved F-Troop, you’d probably enjoy Storch and Tucker here.

Then, after the success of Scooby Doo for Hanna Barbera in the early 1970s, there were quite a number of mystery-solving teens with animal sidekicks and we spotlight a couple of them: The Funky Phantom and Goober and the Ghost Chasers.

Kids, when we say popular culture was always better in the old days, just point to some of these and say “Not so fast.”

The Plot - Episode 4 - Inspector Clouseau / The Inspector

The Inspector and The Matzoriley Brothers, from The Great De Gualle Stone Operation. (C) 2022 MGM.

In this episode, we look at what happens when a studio makes a sequel without its creator and without its star and its more successful cartoon analog.

In 1968, Mirisch Films decided to make a third Pink Panther without Blake Edwards, Peter Sellers and Henry Mancini. And we got Inspector Clouseau, directod by veteran comedy producer/director Bud Yorkin and starring Alan Arkin, in between making The Russians Are Coming and Catch-22. If every a film was less than the sum of its parts, it’s this film, which just doesn’t work on so many levels. But its an interesting study in what happens when you remove the creators that make something special.

We also take a look at The Inspector, the animated film/tv series that actually preceded the aforementioned film by three years. The second animated spin-off series from the Pink Panther franchise debuted a year after the first Pink Panther cartoon won an Oscar. The Inspector (and his assistant Doux-Doux) are voiced by Pat Harrington Jr and The Commissioner is originally voiced by the recently-departed Larry Storch and later by Paul Frees. There were 34 cartoons eventually made for either the movies or Saturday morning TV, with such great episodes titles as Napoleon Blown Aparte and Toulouse La Trick. Full of traditional cartoon gags like exploding bombs and surrealistic situations, your tolerance for them in 2022 may be determined by your tolerance for comedy French and Spanish accents.

The Plot - Episode 2 - The Lavender Hill Mob / Card Shark

He loves only gold. Henry Holland (Alec Guinness) in The Lavender Hill Mob.

The Plot returns with a look at one of the greatest heist comedies in film history, 1951’s The Lavender Hill Mob., starting Alec Guinness and Stanley Holloway. We discuss the film’s plot, how a mild-mannered bank clerk masterminds a robbery of an armored car full of gold. We also give some background on the film, Ealing Studios, some of the creators behind the scenes and its filming.

We also give a quick shout to the new video game Card Shark, a tale of grifting and card cheating in Pre-Revolutionary France. We hope to have some of the folks behind the game on a future episode of the Winter Palace Podcast.

Thanks for listening. Be sure to listen to the other shows on the When It Was Cool Network.

Episode 104 - He Who Laughs Last

Sean Lock, Jimmy Carr and Jon Richardson play Carrot in a Box on 8 out of 10 Cats Does Countdown.

We’re very happy to welcome back writer, comedian and podcaster Kevin Day (@kevinhunterday) back to the show to talk comedy, football and more.

The reason we wanted to have Kevin back on the show was to discuss the British panel show on TV, following the death last year of Sean Lock. Kevin worked with Sean on a number of shows and has written for dozens of shows including Have I Got News for You, 8 Out of 10 Cats Does Countdown, Here Comes the Buzzcocks and many more. We talk about why they are so popular in the UK and haven’t really worked as well in the US. But we do talk about one of the shows that has succeeded in both places and that’s Whose Line Is It Anyway. We talk about improv comedy, the genius of Paul Merton and Tony Slattery, among others, the culture of improv in the US vs the UK and the challenge of doing improv vs stand up. We also talk about the problems of diversity in booking panel shows and the difficulties of avoiding tokenism.

We also talk about podcasts as a means for young comedians to get exposure and segue that into chatting about comedians doing football podcasts, including Quickly Kevin, Comedians Playing Fantasy Premier League and, maybe the grand dame of the genre, The Tuesday Club. We also reminisce about Kevin doing the Chappers podcast more than a decade ago with Mark Chapman, Graham Poll and Roy Meredith.

That leads into actual football chat. We recorded this on Transfer Deadline Day, but not much talk about that. We discuss the arrival of Patrick Viera at Crystal Palace and how much Kevin is enjoying the football at Selhurst Park this year, the rivalry (derby?) with Brighton and the challenges that brings with hosting The Price of Football with Seagulls supporter Kieran Macguire. We also talk about the proliferation of London football clubs, rivalries and tribalism and comparing that to American sports. (Disclaimer: I accidentally swapped Alabama and Auburn in my story and flip-flopped the fandom of the tree killer in that heated blood feud. My apologies to the fans of both teams.)

Kevin is always a great guest and we hopefully to get back in the near future to continue the chat about British sportswriting vs American sportswriting and the other stuff we ran out of time to discuss.

Episode Ninety-Three - Tragedy Tomorrow, Comedy Tonight

Kevin’s new book, Who Are Ya?

Sometimes the podcast you plan isn’t the one you end up doing. That’s the case with our new pod with writer/broadcaster/comedian Kevin Day (@kevinhunterday). What was supposed to be a chat about Kevin’s new book and his podcast ended up starting with a long conversation about comedy, old TV shows and more.

We innocently began the pod talking about time zones in the United States, which somehow turned into a long chat about old school British comedies, especially the shows that were shown in the States on PBS. This turned into a wide-ranging discussion about American comedy vs British comedy, Monty Python, Dad’s Army, Whose Line is it Anyway?, 1970s British sitcoms brought over to the States, classic spy shows, referentiality in comedy, stand-up versus improv and more. We also talked about Kevin’s son Ed Night (@_ednight) also being a stand-up comedian and the challenges facing the comedy business in Great Britain during the pandemic.

Eventually, we did get around to talking about Kevin’s new book, Who Are Ya?, an examination of the (current) 92 clubs in the English football pyramid. We discuss Kevin’s famous interview on Match of the Day 2 with Sylvester Stallone at Goodison Park, football’s working class roots and the contrast with today’s big business philosophies, at least among many of the Premier League clubs.

We close it out with Kevin’s current podcast, The Price of Football, and some of his old ones. How did Kevin end up working with Kieran Maguire and would the pod have even started had he known Kieran supported Brighton, the hated rival of Kevin’s beloved Crystal Palace. We also talk the old Chappers podcast that Kevin did with Mark Chapman, Graham Poll and Roy Meredith and discuss how the podcast model can be better for concent creators than trying to work in radio or TV.

This was a fun show that went in so many different directions. It’s always fun when you have a guest as multi-faceted as Kevin who can talk about everything from football finance to Randall and Hopkirk Deceased to Robin Williams. Hopefully, we will have Kevin back on the show in the future.

Also, when this show debuts in late October 2020, we hope to be announcing in the next week or so our next project which will have written content on the website and an audio companion, either on this feed or a new one.

Thanks for listening.