Episode 130 - Some Jackets Required

Don Fargo and his new Fabulous Fargos (Ken Timbs and Pat Rose) with host Christopher Love (Bert Prentice) from a 1987 episode of World Organization Wrestling

We’re happy to welcome back Al Getz (@AlGetzWrestling) to discuss the latest edition of his Charting the Territories books, this one covering 1971-1973 Gulf Coast Wrestling. We talk about the main players in the territory at this time, including Cowboy Bob Kelly, Bobby Shane, Don Fargo and Rip Tyler, as well as future stars like Kevin Sullivan, Steve Keirn, Ron Bass and Greg Valentine, wrestling as Don’s brother Johnny Fargo. We talk about the towns the promotion ran and some of the interesting ways they crowned champions there (not with belts or trophies).

Then, as we did recently with Beau James, we talk about the travails of being a wrestling historian, covering a business that’s built on a lie. How hard is it to get “accurate” data on things like shows, box office and the like? And Al talk us through his methodology, both online and boots on the ground research.

We chat about Al being inducted into the Tragos/Thesz Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame in Waterloo, Iowa, getting the James C. Melby Historian Award.

The show ends with some quick baseball chat, with the season just a week old and Al’s Atlanta Braves being the only National League East team with a winning record. He also tells us about his first road trip of the year and dealing with weather issues with early spring baseball in the Midwest.

And the next episode of the Charting the Territories will look at Dick the Bruiser’s WWA in Indianapolis coming next week.

Episode 128 - Hellfire and Brimstone

L: Peter Wyngarde as Jason King. C: Jason Wyngarde and Jean Grey in Uncanny X-Men 132. R: Jason Wyngarde and Diana Rigg in The Avengers. Imitation and flattery, et cetera.

It’s been a while, but we are happy as heck to welcome back writer, journalist and From the Sublime editor Iain Hepburn back to the show for a long chat about some classic British popular culture (and other stuff).

We start with the recent passing of film and tv music composer Laurie Johnson at age 96. Although probably best known for The Avengers (and New Avengers) themes, he had a long career that includes Jason King and The Professionals on TV and films including Dr. Strangelove. We talk about his career and other British TV composers like Ron Grainer (The Prisoner and Doctor Who) and Edwin Astley (Randall and Hopkirk Decased, Danger Man). This leads into a chat about 1960 British shows, the ones that made it to the US and the ones that didn’t and the fun of spotting actors on those before before they were famous.

Then, there’s plenty of chat about Doctor Who and the return of Russell T. Davies to run the show. We talk about how the vast Doctor Who library is now on BBC iplayer, the Tales of the Tardis special featuring classic cast members, modernizing old episodes for a contemporary audience and the hunt for missing episodes. This segues into a chat about physical media, streaming services, the phenomenon of Talking Pictures TV in the UK, preservation and restoration of older programs, how that relates to classic wresting TV shows and more.

There’s also chat about Iain’s magazine From the Sublime, who third/fourth issue is currently in production. We talk about the previous issues and some of the topics, including a Buck Rogers-themed restaurant in Glascow in the 1980s and futbol kit culture, including an unexpected discussion of the NASL and MLS. If you want a copy of From the Sublime and you order from their website, enter “WINTERPALACE” for 15% discount.

It’s always great to talk to Iain about stuff, so hopefully it won’t be more than eight years before he is back on the podcast.

The Plot Podcast - Episode 20 - Oh, Wolfie

Salieri (F. Murray Abraham) in disguise. From Amadeus.

Continuing our podcasts centering on biopics, we turn our attention to one of the best of the 1980s, Amadeus, directed by Milos Forman and adapted by Peter Schaffer from his play of the same name. It’s a look at the life of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (Tom Hulce), through the lens of his rival, Antonio Salieri (F. Murray Abraham). We discuss Schaffer’s play, which turned into the film, including all the well-known actors who starred in both the UK and Broadway. We look at the plot of the film, discuss some of the historical liberties taken in play and film, including the question of “did Salieri really kill Mozart?” We discuss the rest of the cast, including some well-known character actors and one young actress who would go on to star in one of the biggest US TV shows of this century.

If that wasn’t enough, we talk about Rock Me Amadeus, the 1985 song by Austrian singer Falco and marvel at not only how many versions of the song there were (over 20) but just how amazingly successful it was around the world.

We might be having a new comics podcast coming soon. Still working on logistics. So be on the lookout for that, maybe, along with some big name guests coming to the main show (fingers crossed).

Episode 126 - Tokyo Giant

Godzilla vs The Marvel Universe. From Godzilla 24 by Doug Moench, Herb Trimpe, et al. (c) 2023 Marvel Comics.

After seven long years, we’re happy to welcome Zander Cannon (@zandercannon) to the pod to discuss the mad monster party, officially known as Godzilla Minus One. We basically go through the entire film plot point by plot point, so if you haven’t seen it yet, save the pod for after you’ve watched it. Short version: it’s as good or better than all the buzz you’ve heard about it. We talk about the main characters, both the humans and Big G himself, compare it to the original 1954 film (with and without Raymond Burr in the American version), the call-backs to previous movies, the drama at the heart of the movie and what very nerdy fan service thing I would have loved to see in the movie, even if most viewers may not have gotten the reference.

From there, we discuss the 1979 Godzilla comic from Marvel. Zander only read a couple issues as a kid, but I reread all 24 issues for the show. So, we discuss the creators and art style, which Marvel super heroes appear in the book and, of course, the giant Mattel Godzilla toy from that era (you know, the one with the spring-loaded fist you could shoot).

That’s a natural segue into Zander’s comic Kaijumax, which finished up last year and the third of three hardcover collections is coming out soon (it may be out when you hear this) from Oni Press. We talk about the evolution of the series over its 30 issues, the lack of monster vs monster splash pages in the series, all the tropes that got turned on their heads in the series and more.

We end with what could a general talk abou the comics industry, largely about original art, prices these days for older pages, creating comics digitally vs the old pen and ink days, color guides and how cool they are to see, retro technology and a bunch of other topics.

It was great to talk to Zander again on the show and hopefully it won’t take seven years to invite him back.

Episode 125 - Sweet F.A.

The famous 1974 photo of Exotic Adrian Streeet and his coal mining father.

It’s always great to welcome back birthday twin Kevin Day (@kevinhunterday) to the show. First up, once I learned Kevin had been a fan of World of Sport wrestling growing up, I knew that would be the subject of his next appearance. Since he was casual fan watching, he brings a different perspective to the business than most of our usual guests, who are historians or competitors themselves. We talk about how it evolves over the 20+ years it was on ITV in the UK and chat about most of the well-known names: host Kent Walton, Big Daddy (no HOF talk here), Giant Haystacks, Mick McManus, Kendo Nagasaki (I explain to Kevin about his Japanese namesake in 80s American wrestling), Johnny Saint, Steve/William Regal, Robbie Brookside, Catweazle and others. But we spent a lot of time talking about Adrian Street. (Kevin was originally going to do the pod right after Adrian’s death earlier this year). We talk about his career in the US and the UK, the famous photo (seen above) with his Welsh coal mining father in 1974, his influence on glam rock, how the character was presented at the time and now in present day and, of course, his infamous showdown with a certain disgraced UK TV presenter.

From there, we discuss Kevin’s new book he co-wrote with former guest Kieran Maguire and their Price of Football producer Guy Kitty called “Unfit and Improper Persons.” We discuss how the book came about as a way to discuss the myriad of issues in the world of football finance without it being just a textbook (since Kieran already wrote that book). Here, the three of them start a fictional football team named West Park Rovers and we follow their journey from pub team to Europa League participant. Along the way, they discuss many of the issues plaguing the modern game: financial fair play, sustainability, accessibility, inclusivity and, of course, amortization. There’s also some chat about Lionel Messi in MLS, David Beckham, Pele, The New York Cosmos, Once in a Lifetime, the NASL, the NFL and other American sports.

Wrapping up, we learned on the Price of Football that both Kieran and Kevin were also gamers and both were playing the new Zelda game, “Tears of the Kingdom.” We heard from Kieran a few months ago about his thoughts on the game and now we hear Kevin’s opinions having finished the game and how it compared to its predecesor “Breath of the Wild.”

And, by happenstance, we recorded the show the night before our two teams played in the Premier League, so there’s some brief chat about the fortunes of our two clubs this year.

I love talking to Kevin about old school British popular culture, as he provides an eye witness account on shows and sports I either watched here in the US on PBS with no cultural context (Monty Python, Doctor Who) or only discovered years later (Randall and Hopkirk, Dad’s Army and Department S/Jason King for example).

Episode 124 - Just Gone Noon, Half Past Monsoon

The Sheik and Princess Salima, also known as Edward and Joyce Farhat.

Who better to have on the show to discuss scary wrestlers for Halloween than the man who wrote a book about maybe the scariest of them all, The Sheik (Edward Farhat)?

I’m happy to welcome for the first time on the show, author, historian and podcaster Brian R Solomon (@BrianRSolomon). Brian’s biography of the Sheik, Blood and Fire, tells the story of how the boy fascinated by Middle Eastern culture in things like Rudolph Valentino’s The Sheik and Michael Powell’s The Thief of Bagdad, would provide the basis for his wrestling persona. We talk about his amateur wrestlingcredentials garnered during World War II and how they were part of his initial pro wrestling career, before he eventually became the Madman from the Middle East. We go over most of his career, both in the US, including his promotion Big Time Wrestling in Detroit and his phenomenal success in Japan, first with All Japan and then a decade later in FMW.

Since Brian is currently working on a book about Gorilla Monsoon, we talk about the similarities, at least being amateur wrestlers who ended up with “foreign heel” gimmicks. We also have a fascinating conversation about early 20th American attitudes toward “exotic” cultures, like the Middle East and the Far East and how that shaped their gimmicks. We also look at how The Sheik, one of the biggest heels in the 1970s, never portayed the kind of anti-American character we associated with people like the Iron Sheik, Adnan Al-Kaissie or Scandar Akbar.

From there, we have a long chat about the candidates for this year’s Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame. Since we both have votes, we go over who we think the strongest candidates should be, even if there’s no guarantee they’ll be elected. We also discuss of the flaws in the system and ways it could be improved.

We also have some chat about wrestling’s place in popular culture in the 1970s and how the bloody wrestling magazine covers played into the seediness of the sport, before it became more sanitized in the 1980s.

Finally, there’s some comics chat, where I recommend some current books Brian might enjoy as a lapsed comics reader.

This was a great show and I hope to have Brian back on the future to discuss some of the things we only briefly mention. Make sure to check out Brian’s books and his podcast, Shut Up and Wrestle, part of the Arcadian-Vanguard network.

The Plot Podcast - Episode 17 - Enola Gay

On the 78th anniversary of the Atomic Bomb being dropped on Hiroshima, we look at some of the popular culture around that event.

We start by discussing the 1980 song “Enola Gay,” by the 1980s British band Orchestral Maneuvers in the Dark (OMD). We look at a brief history of the band, the success of the song both at the time and its historical legacy and a not-necessarily-obvious resonance it had in popular culture.

After that, given the box office success of Christopher Nolan’s “Oppenheimer,” we look some other films that take on the creation of the bomb in 1945. That includes the 1989 films “Day One” starring David Strathairn as Oppenheimer and “Fat Man and Little Boy,” starring Paul Newman and Dwight Schultz (who you may remember from “The A-Team” or “Star Trek: The Next Generation”) as Oppenheimer. We also briefly discuss the 1980 BBC mini-series “Oppenheimer” with Sam Waterston in the title role.

We end with a brief mention of two other foreign language films related to the events: Alain Resnais’ “Hiroshima Mon Amour” from 1959 and Akira Kurosawa’s “Rhapsody in August” from 1991.

Episode 121 - Boys Don't Cry

An ad for the New York Cosmos that ran in DC Comics in 1977.

We are happy to finally have Kieran Maguire (@kieranmaguire) from the Price of Football podcast on the show. Even though he only a few miles up the road in Philadelphia last week, this episode was a Trans-Atlantic recording, done both late night and early morning. While his teaching day job brought him to the States, he managed to get to see his Brighton and Hove Albion squad take on Chelsea in one of this year’s Premier League pre-season matches taking place here. We started off discussing how he found the atmosphere of the match, both on- and off-pitch, desegregated crowds and exorbitant concession prices. That branched out into a general chat about football in England and the growth of MLS, the thorny topic of American ownership of British teams and the old chestnut, promotion and relegation. We also talked about some recent US-related topics that had come up on the Price of Football that related to US sports, like public salaries and agents’ fees.

Believe it or not, I wanted to keep the football chat to a minimum, but it was the first half of the episode. After that, we talked about Kieran’s other great cultural love, music, particularly the 70s and 80s bands in what some call the Second British Invasion. We discuss how the Manchester music scene in the early 80s influenced where he went to university and our mutual love for bands like New Order and Joy Division, OMB, the Smiths and the Cure. Also, some love for the New Music Express, Danny Kelly and Danny Baker, the intimacy of podcasts vs modern radio and more.

We wrap up with some video game chat. Kieran and co-host (and former podcast guest) Kevin Day were both playing the new Zelda game, Tears of the Kingdom. We talked about how he has found the game so far, comparing it to Breath of the Wild, using video games as decompression time and more.

We had hoped to do a separate show with Kevin and pair them together, but scheduling issues kept that from happening. Hopefully, Kevin will be on before or in conjunction with the next Price of Football book, Unfit and Improper Persons, where the guys discuss how to start a local pub team and build it all the way up to Champions League success and what the financial realities are in such an endeavor. And yes, we did talk about how an unlikely Odd Couple of a Crystal Palace supporting comedian and Brighton supporting academic have managed to produce a successful podcast.

The Plot Podcast - Episode 12 - Year of the Domino

Subliminal Messaging as seen by Reuben Flagg in American Flagg issue 1. (c) Howard Chaykin

We take a look at the use of subliminal message in two classic 1980s pieces of science fiction - Howard Chaykin's American Flagg comic from 1983 and the original British pilot for Max Headroom from 1985. We discuss the history of each project, how subliminals were used in the plot and just ahead of their time both projects were and would fit right in today's culture in 2023.

The Plot Podcast - Episode 11 - Conquistador

Kang meets Merlin in Strange Tales 134, July 1965, by Stan Lee and Bob Powell. (c) 2023 Marvel Comics.

“The best laid schemes of mice and men…”

To tie-in to both Valentine’s Day and the upcoming Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania movie, the plan for the podcast was take a look at the wedding of Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne from Avengers 60. But that story, and the previous issue, the first appearance of Yellowjacket, present a lot of stuff that is very totally out-of-place for 2023 sensibilities. So, we called an audible.

Instead, we look at the long and convoluted history of Kang the Conqueror, which, as it turns out, doesn’t even start with his first appearance in Avengers 8. So, let’s talk about Kang, Rama-Tut, the Scarlet Centurion, Immortus, Ravonna, Nathaniel Richards, Doctor Doom, The Council of Cross-Time Kangs, The Time Variance Authority, Mobius M. Mobius and more. We also (for the second pod in a row) discuss Omniverse, the 1970s fanzine started by the late Mark Gruenwald and the article in issue two of that magazine devoted to all those characters, or is it just one character?

(Note: this only goes up to the late 1980s. We don’t talk about the Avengers story by Kurt Busiek and various others in the early 2000s or anything from the last few years after the characters became part of the MCU in the Loki TV show.

This is a great companion piece to the recent episode of The Winter Palace where we talked to Mark Waid about continuity in comics.

Episode 113 - Fat Pigeons

Morpheus meets Hector Hall. (c) 2022 DC Comics.

Much like the comic itself, our podcast on the first season of the Sandman TV show is finally here. To do so, we’re happy to welcome back AP reporter Ashraf Khalil (@ashrafkhalil) to talk about it. It’s only fitting since Ash read many of those issues by borrowing them off me or reading them in our dorm in college, when the series was being originally published back in the 1990s. We’ll talk about reading the series in real time, the pain of publishing delays, favorite stories and such. Then, we’ll discuss the TV show, what we liked and didn’t like, being faithful to the source material, casting choices in 2022 vs how the characters were written or created 30 years ago, future seasons and more. We also discuss some of Neil Gaiman’s other work adapted to TV, like American Gods and Good Omens.

(1:43:00) We also managed to sneak in some wrestling chat. Ash talked about what he is liking about the two big promotions currently and I mention some of the other stuff I’ve been watching. We also talk about the recent death of Antonio Inoki, some of his matches and his out-of-the-ring notoriety.

At the end, there’s some brief futbol chat, about Egypt not making the upcoming World Cup and the rivalries between African futbol powers.

A shout out to Vintage Phoenix Comics in Bloomington, Indiana, where many issues of Sandman were bought in the 1990s and our friend Victoria who was often along for the comic shop trips back then. Hope you are well, Vic.

The Plot - Episode 5 - French New Wave

A looby card for Shoot the Piano Player.

With the recent passing of Jean-Luc Godard, we look at three French New Wave heist films: Shoot the Piano Player, Band of Outsiders and Le Doulos.

We start with a very cursory explanation of the French New Wave, Cahiers du Cinema and the influence of Post WWII gangster films, what we would later call film noir: private eyes, trench coats and fedoras, femmes fatale, chiascuro lighting and so on. (Apologies to all my former film professor for some very brief oversimplifications.)

Shoot the Piano Player (1960) was Truffaut’s second film after The 400 Blows. It’s the story of a piano man with a dark secret, his ne’er-do-brothers, some gangsters and the bar maid that has a crush on the piano man and who also knows his secret. Plenty of humor in this often-dark movie.

Band of Outsiders (1964) is often called Godard’s most accessible film, thanks to its straightforward plot, humor and pop references. Two guys and a girl plan to steal a pile of cash from the villa where the girl Odile (Anna Karina) lives nearly. There’s also the burgeoning love triangle between Odile and the two guys, Franz and Arthur. And a lot of silliness before the robbery, where, of course, things go wrong.

Le Doulos (1962) was one of many crime films made by Jean-Pierre Melville, who is sometimes called “The Godfather of the French New Wave” since he was making films before the Cahiers critics and mentored some of them along the way. Le Doulos was the slang term for a police informant and the question is the film is just who was tipped off the police to the heist being pulled by Maurice and Remy? Was it Silien, the film’s trench coat and fedora wearing gangster, played by perennial French New Wave star Jean-Paul Belmondo? Or was it someone else? You need a score card to keep track of the twists and turns, as the body count grows throughout the picture.

There are of course many other heist films worth checking out. These three are currently streaming on the Criterion Channel and HBO Max and Prime also have a number of French New Wave classics. We wanted to talk about Rififi, but it’s not currently streaming anywhere, so we’re saving that for another day.

The Plot is a co-production of Odessa Steps Magazine and The When It Was Cool Network.

Episode Ninety-Six - The Sheik of Araby

Sarge gets a “gift” from Saddam Hussein. Or so he says.

We welcome back Ashraf Khalil (@ashrafkhalil) to take about a dubious wrestling anniversary, the 30th anniversary of Iraqi Sympathizer Sgt. Slaughter winning the WWF title during the Persian Gulf War. We talk about the whole history of the gimmick, friom Sarge’s return to the WWF in the Summer of 1990, his initial heel gimmick, the pairing with General Adnan, his winning the WWF title, the Wrestlemania VII match with Hulk Hogan, the addition of Colonel Mustafa to the group, the split and face turn and blow-off. We discuss what was going in Middle East as all this was going on, as well as the WWF’s war with Dave Meltzer over his coverage of the angle in the National. (Check out the recent Between the Sheets Patreon episode for more on this topic).

This leads into a broader discussion of the depiction of Arab/Middle Eastern wrestlers, from the Terrible Turk in the late 1900s up until the present, including looking at the Iron Sheik, Sheik Adnan Al-Kaissie, Scandar Akbar, the Great Mephisto, Muhammad Hassan, the Original Sheik, Sabu and many more. Who were Arab-Americans, who were from the Middle East, who used a fake accent and who didn’t and other relevant questions. Shout out to Charting the Territories podcast for their recent look at the in=ring career of Scandar Akbar, which helped out conversation.

There’s also a lot of digressions in the show, including stuff about comics, Indiana University’s “eight front doors,” pre-Internet journalism and more. Thanks for listening.

Episode Fifty - Ouroboros

The Devil Doctor. from LXG 1. (c) 2016 Alan Moore and Kevin O'Neill

Author and academician Jess Nevins (@jessnevins) joins the podcast for big episode fifty. We talk the art of annotating comics, starting with Kingdom Come and most notably The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen by Alan Moore and Kevin O'Neill. We also discuss how his research methods have changed since the start of the internet age in the mid 1990s to the present. We also chat about current comics include the works of Ed Brubaker(@brubaker) and Sean Phillips (@seanpphillips), Bandette by Paul Tobin (@paultobin) and Colleen Coover (@colleencoover),  the new Moon Knight book and Black Hammer by Jeff Lemire (@jefflemire) and various artists, Vision and Batman, both written by Tom King (@tomkingtk), Scarlet Witch by James Robinson jamesdrobinson) and various artists, and other books.  We conclude by telling some stories about role playing Golden Age heroes while we both in grad school at Bowling Green.  You can find information about Jess' books available in print and digitally at jessnevins.com.